Played a game

[andyskinner]

My wife finally played a game with me tonight.

We took the elf and goblin figures I have and called them humans, so everything was identical. We had three warriors, three archers, a leader, and a big critter (horse rider on one side, troll on other).

We took pictures--I'll put them up later.

* Is there a way to decide who goes first? We just rolled, and alternated from them on. Sometimes games figure who goes first each turn, but that doesn't seem likely here.

* Extra 1 in 2nd bullet in Leader section.

* Not sure about the diagonal for corner cover. Maybe should extend parallel to wall figure is touching.

* Can a figure with charge ability charge with no target?

* Can targets be anywhere along triple span? This seems like it needs work. I'd like to see the triple span for 2 actions split out from charge to be for fast critters, and have trampling attacks not get the speed unless the figure is fast, too. But triple span move for 2 actions isn't as much of an advantage when base is big. Hmmm.

* What dice does the target of a trample roll? Size? Melee? Does armor count? Seems maybe too risky. A troll or horseman might only be one size bigger, and one die difference isn't that much.

* When can skull counter be used to stand up a figure? Can it take actions if in owner's turn?

* Can engaged friends help in gang up? I'm engaged with enemy, who is engaged with my friend, who is engaged with another enemy. Do I have gang up bonus with my enemy?

* Can either combatant swing around? It says on draw--who gets to swing around? Acting figure?

* What if one side wins, but armor reduces difference to 0. Does that count as draw?


My wife liked the individual actions, though with so many regular warriors, I'd like to be able to move a bunch of them, attack with them, etc. Partly that's so I could go bigger, and partly because there is a lot of thought on everyone, and I felt maybe I'd rather concentrate that thought on special characters, or groups.

The dice system has a lot of variance! A single die bonus doesn't make you feel safe. I think I'd want a troll to either have another melee die, or be a bigger size class, although he doesn't fit in the size 5 description.

I like the armor roll a lot in theory, but it felt awkward in practice. Maybe as the combat system smoothed out, we'd feel better.

Shooting was pitiful, but we never really shot from up close, so it didn't feel bad. Is there a maximum range?

I think the troll's size should make up for being easier to hit in toughness. I don't know if that means I'd just not count size, or give an extra die to both sides.

Almost all kills came through Downed results, either by not spending the counter, or by cashing it in soon after. Only one kill result. Not sure that's a problem.

Lots of knock backs on shooting. Felt silly--why bother?


Summary: I like the feel, but I'm not sure it offers much over Song of Blades and Heroes, which is a very similar game. I (and my wife) liked the counters. I liked not making every action roll a gamble (will I lose the rest of my turn?). I like the swing around result.

I guess I also liked counting dice off as bonuses. But I'm still not sure of the variance.

andy

[Dave King]

Great!
What about the 50-50 dice system? Did that work for you- Its where the majority of the variance comes from from earlier editions. I wouldn't want an awkward amount of dice in play.

Other points:
You can charge without a target, its a fast move.

Engaged friends do help, but only those engaged to the attacker.

Only ATTACKER swings around. That is, the person who spent the action.

I tend to play a loose rule that if models are of the same type and outside of 1 long span, you action roll once for the lot, move the furthest, the closest and can place the rest anywhere inbetween.

Regarding troll hits, I had that in earlier builds. Glad you raised it.

[andyskinner]

We never had too many dice--nowhere near your limit of 8.

The 50/50 dice themselves were fine. If this makes it to a common game for me, I'd probably buy/make some dice. I did like counting out dice for my side and hers, rather than remembering bonuses. But not sure whether the one die bonus for the troll really reflected his size, when the next step up is a dragon.

I don't know what you mean about "troll hits". Do you mean my comment about shooting large things, how I don't think the size should count against them?

Is fast move an ability, or an action choice? I'd make it an ability, and say 3 moves for 2 AP, rather than a triple span. And I wouldn't give the ability to move faster along with the trample ability. (Maybe I'm not thinking about it right--maybe it wasn't the best thing for a size 4 critter.)

I think between my earlier comments and questions, and those raised here, I'd like to see an update. To be honest, I'd like to check whether I have an answer for all the things I've asked so far, by email and forum. My impression is that you're busy, and I haven't paid you anything, so I can wait. But I'd like to see answers to the long list of stuff I've asked.

It is possible you're still trying out the basic ideas, and maybe my specific questions aren't that relevant yet. In that case, I think the basic scheme works, because the game is so similar to a popular game. The dice mechanic is fun, with the caveat that I'm not sure the variance is right--do you get the right level of benefit from an extra die, for example. And the Dreadskulls are fun (though the details of how to use them should be in one clear place).

We had to take pictures with my wife's camera, so she has to send them to me before I can post them somewhere. I'm not sure how good they'll be.

What did you mean about "outside of 1 long span", concerning moving the group? You mean that far from the enemy?

andy

[andyskinner]

Pictures are here:

sites.google.com/site/skinnerandy/skulldred1

They aren't beautiful--camera is broken so we used my wife's phone; and although I have a nice fluorescent light over the ping-pong table, I need something from the side.

andy

[Dave King]

Hi, yes, really busy at the moment! Sorry for late replies!


* Is there a way to decide who goes first? We just rolled, and alternated from them on. Sometimes games figure who goes first each turn, but that doesn't seem likely here.

Its alternating turns. For 1 on 1 I usually play with the underdog getting to select which side he will play from, place figures last.

* Not sure about the diagonal for corner cover. Maybe should extend parallel to wall figure is touching.

Either is fine, so long as it is clear that you intend to be in cover. Declaring this is simple enough way to fix it.

* Can a figure with charge ability charge with no target?

Yes. This is how horses can cover great distance. Men actually can outrun a horse over short distances and in complex terrain - its only when the get into the open that they can really overtake. I wanted the charge rules to deal with this.

* Can targets be anywhere along triple span? This seems like it needs work. I'd like to see the triple span for 2 actions split out from charge to be for fast critters, and have trampling attacks not get the speed unless the figure is fast, too. But triple span move for 2 actions isn't as much of an advantage when base is big. Hmmm.

Hmm indeed. Worth playing with.

* When can skull counter be used to stand up a figure? Can it take actions if in owner's turn?
I currently let players use them whenever to stand up a figure, but must declare this intention before any attacks are called against the figure.

* Can engaged friends help in gang up? I'm engaged with enemy, who is engaged with my friend, who is engaged with another enemy. Do I have gang up bonus with my enemy?

Yes. Look at your target, and count any friendly models touching him. Each adds a dice.

* Can either combatant swing around? It says on draw--who gets to swing around? Acting figure?

The one who initiates the attack action is referred to as 'attacker'.

In earlier rules, on a draw the attacker could knockback, drive back or swing around on a draw. Tell me which you prefer. I am starting to feel its much simpler with the earlier system, and it has the added bonus of never having a 'nothing happens' result.

* What if one side wins, but armor reduces difference to 0. Does that count as draw?

I play this as nothing happens... which, considering the last answer, could mean the only time nothing happens is when armour saves you.

[andyskinner]

It seems to me that a "winning" attack should be better than a rolled draw, even if the winning attack is then negated by armor. Maybe you should allow the winner of the roll to decide whether to take a swing around instead of pressing home the attack before applying armor. Once you decide to press for the attack, the armor could really negate the roll.

So always allow the winner to take a lesser result, and the win-by-1 result of swing around can't be blocked by armor. If you win by 3 and don't choose swing around, then the opponent can apply armor.

I'm not sure yet about a draw counting as a win-by-1 for the attacker.

andy